But the 3rd VM does not tell us whether or not the packets are real. It only tells us that we can use it to see these virtual packets. With packet going across an ethernet or transmitted through the air, we can use external devices to see them (e.g. measure the voltage changes on the cable), but with virtual packets that never leave the host, we don't really have any way to objectively measure them. They only exist in the "imagination" of the host computer. :) And for the other issue - we are talking about a generation, many of whom have never used a computer. They don't understand how a computer works, never mind virtualization. It raises the very interesting situation that the majority of users don't have any clue about how the technology that they are using works. We are increasingly moving in the direction that more and more people are using technology that fewer and fewer people understand. Kelwin On 06/19/2012 09:54 AM, Murphy Scott wrote: > An interesting poser. Perhaps we should discuss it. > > As a starting point, I think a third VM running a virtual sniffer on the virtual network would see the packets cross the virtual lan as long as it is connected to a virtual aggregation port on the virtual switch. Have the third VM act as a virtual gateway between two virtual lan segments would work as well, as we could see the virtual packets forwarding between the virtual interfaces. This would at least indicate that they exist for that state of reality. > > As for your grandmother and an understandable explanation, perhaps some background on what she did for a living might provide some ability to phrase the concept in terms that she could build upon. Worst case, fall back on fairy tales or adventure stories. There are enough examples in there to hint at virtualization concepts. > > It all sounds like it could provide for an interesting discussion. > > Scott > > On 2012-06-19, at 12:09 AM, Kelwin Wylie wrote: > >> We could discuss philosophical questions relating to >> virtualization. For example, if you have one physical host >> machine on which you start up two virtual guests and you >> set up a virtual network between the two virtual guests, >> do the packets travelling between those two virtual guests >> on the virtual network actually exist? >> >> And no matter what your answer is, do you think you can >> even explain the question in an understandable way to my >> 85 year old mother who does not have and has never used >> a computer? >> >> >> Kelwin >> >> On 06/18/2012 11:07 PM, Murphy Scott wrote: >>> Just a quick reminder that this Thursday is our regular monthly meeting. >>> >>> I've been involved in negotiations with various contractors to get things fixed up around my house, so I haven't put much thought into the topics. I may have something put together with asciidoc to show at the meeting. I have to pop together some info on a client's configuration, so as long as I keep the actual addresses, etc. out of the result, it may make for an interesting item. >>> >>> Other topics always welcome. >>> -- >>> Scott Murphy >>> scott [ dot ] murphy [ at ] arrow-eye [ dot ] com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> regulars mailing list >>> regulars [ at ] ovsage [ dot ] org >>> http://www.ovsage.org/mailman/listinfo/regulars >>> >> >> -- >> Kelwin Wylie >> kelwin [ at ] wylie [ dot ] ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> regulars mailing list >> regulars [ at ] ovsage [ dot ] org >> http://www.ovsage.org/mailman/listinfo/regulars > -- Kelwin Wylie kelwin [ at ] wylie [ dot ] ca _______________________________________________ regulars mailing list regulars [ at ] ovsage [ dot ] org http://www.ovsage.org/mailman/listinfo/regulars